My Answer to Woo - Part One

I commented on this blog post, but now want to comment additionally.  I'll do it over here, since it is long, something I had wanted to say for awhile, and BECAUSE I WANT TO LEVERAGE WOO'S POPULARITY AND DRIVE TRAFFIC TO MY BLOG!!!!  (Guess at least n=2 on that plan, judging by the other visitors there.)

First a little note about Dr. K and his battle against IF.  I have read him since the beginning, and even though it wasn't 5 years ago, he has always warned people about IF.  He says that people who are leptin resistant shouldnt IF.  He is the only person in the whole paleo cesspool who ever gave any kind of explanation for this, and then later Stephanie Ruper did a post where she outlined some of the problems with women doing IF.  Her explanations were insufficient (and she might reconsider renaming her blog to Paleo for young women).

MY blogpost about it is here, of course with confounding factors.  My take-home clif-note version for my own situation is that I used to do IF and it worked, and then after menopause, along with a typical calorie-reduction plan recommended by [redacted]people, IF was a disaster.

This came up a few times on Paleohacks, with first a tepid response, and then a full-scale, jihhadist, lemming-like, mass-downvoting extravaganza by all the Wolf-pack and their extremely disrespectful zealot brofriend WOD-podners.  ("Oh, we can't let her get away with posting that HERE, now that the top dog in the Wolf-pack even put IF in the TITLE OF HIS BLOG!!")

Maybe Dr. K's explanation is wrong, too, but he was the only one at the time honoring the anecdote.  And, despite his posing, his revisionism, and his insane current marketing plan, I have never seen him waver on the IF prescription.   And that is, "NEVER NEVER NEVER until leptin sensitive."  BTW, you do not have to purchase any supplements or webinars to get the information about Kruse's leptin reset. 

At good time to add, I guess, that Dr. Rosedale also has a plan for making one leptin sensitive again.  And, despite what many tater-eatin' carbbists say, you do not have to eat any expensive supplements in order to do it.  In his book, he clearly explains uses of the supplements, and how to do it on a budget.  None are essential.  I got his book for free at the library.

How to reset your leptin - part 1

Hi folks, yes, I AM reading. 

Recently I saw a commenter wanting to know of other ways to do a leptin reset.  Both Drs. Rosedale and Kruse feel that they have the answers to this.  Their plans are quite similar.  Both call for a low carb paleo/style diet, limiting feedlot meats, cow's milk, and fake foods.  Both limit snacking after dinner and don't recommend lots of exercise.  Both would agree that a can of sardines is the most ideal meal/snack, although it looks like Kruse would rather you have them raw, with the heads on, and in the blender.

They differ in the amount of protein.  Rosedale's protein recommendation is quite low compared to Kruse's.  Their passionate arguments are on Paleohacks, if you even dare to go over there, but here's the gist.  Rosedale thinks protein should be kept low to limit gluconeogenesis, and that doing so can also reduce the risk of cancer.  Kruse says that doesn't matter, because the diet already reduces the risk of cancers.

To me, the Kruse argument is a little bit of "if you do what I say, and get so-and-so into balance, then it is not a problem".  I think he might be putting the cart before the horse.  It doesn't really address the transition phase.  Rosedale's plan also limits fat in the early weeks.  He said that he is a big fan of coconut oil, but did not put that in his book due to the editor/publisher pressure.

Kruse is trying to elicit certain outcomes by limiting food during certain intervals.  In order to keep from being hungry during that time, he front-loads with plenty of protein at breakfast.  Rosedale says not only is that not necessary, it is detrimental, since it encourages gluconeogenesis.  He feels people would be better off if they ate when they were hungry and that snacking is not a problem as long as there aren't many carbs in the snacks.  I think he might be putting the cart before the horse, too.  When people get adapted to the lower-protein, low carb approach, they are fine with fat-burning, they lose their hunger and then it is easy to not constantly snack or to constantly be snacking on protein.  The first few days can be really tough for people.

Rosedale's book came out in the 90's, and to me at least, it is the first "paleo" diet book out there.  He is working on two new books, but seriously, Rosedale, you need to finish them.

My personal experience with both diets I will cover in another post.  But I'll add here that I follow a modified Rosedale plan now.  I did well on the leptin reset, but after awhile I gained all the weight back.  I found that Kruse's leptin reset plan elicited many positive changes for me, but lots of weight loss wasn't one of them.  Restricting my protein has been more helpful.

If you want to learn more about the two protein approaches, read Jimmy Moore's posts about his n=1 experiment with the ketone blood monitor, and also his recent ATLCE podcast featuring Dr. Layman.  Dr. Layman is an expert in protein.

My reply on Dr. Rosedale's blog

Dr. Rosedale recently posted an interesting "finale" to the latest AHS12 safe starch debate.  This response is from js 290:

"I’ve often wondered if the people claiming to have thyroid (typically low energy) problems on a VLC simply are not eating enough? That is, the claim is that by adding back carbs into the diet, they miraculously solved their low energy/thyroid problems. Perhaps all that really happened was they ate more, which happened to have been carbs. My guess is they would have experienced the same effect by eating more fat.
This is really a very fundamental concept that anyone who’s gone through a differential equations class should pick up very quickly: the concept of a coupled system. That is, energy input and energy output are coupled in the mathematical sense; therefore, they cannot be treated independently. Changing one affects the other, probably in very non-linear ways. So, if one understands coupled systems, then one can immediately reject the notion of “eating less and moving more.” Because eating less may cause one to move less. And, in order to move more, it may absolutely require eating more.
As an unqualified skeptic, that’s my guess on the supposed “thyroid problems” that people claim to experience. They either aren’t fully keto-adapted, they aren’t eating enough, or both."

Gotta luv it when diffyQ is invoked, like that makes the argument sound more plausible, especially for those folks who cover their eyes during the mathy parts.  Clearly, this person hasn't a clue with what is happening to some of us on this type of diet.  JS also seems to be quite caught in the lure of thermodynamics.

I was on the leptin reset for several weeks with little weight-loss success, and feeling colder and a bit tired.  When I went off the diet with one carby meal  it immediately kicked me into something that worked better.  My energy was better, my mood was better, sleep got better and I started losing weight.  Yes, the calories were higher than a typical evening meal, but overall not as high as many other days on the plan.  On days I was eating the Big A$$ Breakfast featuring fatty hamburgers lots of un-drained bacon, the overall calorie level was relatively high compared to the caloric level on a more typical pre-leptin-reset day.

I responded:
"Your calorie explanation sounds plausible, but untrue in my case. I think one of the problems with many of the theories and chatter about this effect is that it is very difficult for people who have few problems transitioning to the diet to understand or even believe that the issue exists.
The problem with the explanation by many low carb experts is that it oftentimes does not adequately address that transition phase. I know in my own case, had I not backed into a lower carb diet accidentally, I would never have stuck with it. Returning to the “safety” of a high carb diet can really make a difference to people who are on the edge hormonally, at least adrenally.
It doesn’t help much when people continue to insist that we are all doing it wrong. I followed a number of plans religiously. Now that I know how it feels on the other side, I have no problem going through a bit of hell to get back into a fat-burning state if I get out it for some reason. I have developed short cuts. Before I did Kruse’s leptin reset with CT, re-entry meant certain loss in weight, but also loss of sleep ability, libido, energy, and feeling constantly cold.
I do not think it is wise for the low carb community to ignore such data. There are plenty of people in the high-carb community who are more than ready to bash us for their perception of the failings of our diet. Let’s not give them any more ammo by not dealing with it. Instead of sweeping such data points under the rug, it would serve us well to stir them up, take a look, and make the diet more workable and successful for everyone."

And, lucky for the state of my low carb journey, adding back carbs more than a meal here and there always makes me feel much worse.  I would never want to pitch my tent in the "safe starch" camp for very long, preferring to view the extra carbs as more of a temporary drug with significant negative side effects.  Better, ya'know, in those one-pill-per-prescription bubble-packs so it is hard to overdose and kill yourself.

I read Animal Pharm's leptin reset post with great interest.  She was unable to successfully do the leptin reset as written.  It sounds like her experience was similar in some aspects to mine, and people should be reading and talking about it.

I would suggest that Dr. Rosedale and others not have his post be the final word in this matter.  Just take a look at his quote picture at the top of his post.  People who don't do as well on VLC aren't even fully into the ridicule stage yet.  It is still pretty much total denial.  Nobody over on his "team" even responded to my comment.

I listened to Jimmy Moore's podcast with Dr. Phinney, and came away disappointed in the range of the doctor's answers to stalls.  When a questioner mentioned thyroid and adrenal issues as possible players, he strongly denied any thyroid issues based on his experience, but he never even approached the adrenal question.  And another thing that really bugged me is that he discounted one thyroid comment that he heard because the comment was from someone who had a "terminal" degree.  Hey, Dr. Phinney, Dr. Schwarzbein does not have a terminal degree.  Maybe you should stroll on over to her site and see about what she has to say.